Keith Martin has been involved with the collector car hobby for more than 40 years, and is the founder and publisher of this magazine. Keith has also written for the New York Times, Automobile, AutoWeek, Road & Track and other publications, has been an emcee for numerous concours, and had his own show, “What’s My Car Worth,” shown on Velocity. He has received many honors, including the Lee Iacocca Award, the Edward Herrmann Award, was inducted into the Concorso Italiano Hall of Fame, and more. He has served on the board of directors of The LeMay Museum and Oregon Ballet Theater, and was formerly the chair of the board of the Meguiar’s Award. Learn more about Keith here.
For the past couple of weeks, you’ve been telling me your preferences when it comes to collector car tours. You prefer point-to-point for the routes, but hub-and-spoke for the convenience. You like 1974 as a cutoff date so that all the cars have a similar performance envelope. You wouldn’t mind stretching it a little to see newer cars. But you are not interested in a “modern supercar” rally. Here’s my last question: How do you want to pay for the meals, accommodations and extras? Tours today have evolved into two categories, all-inclusive or a la carte. On all-inclusive tours you pay […]
For the past couple of weeks, you’ve been telling me your preferences when it comes to collector car tours. You prefer point-to-point for the routes, but hub-and-spoke for the convenience. You like 1974 as a cutoff date so that all the cars have a similar performance envelope. You wouldn’t mind stretching it a little to see newer cars. But you are not interested in a “modern supercar” rally.
Here’s my last question: How do you want to pay for the meals, accommodations and extras?
Tours today have evolved into two categories, all-inclusive or a la carte. On all-inclusive tours you pay an entry fee and everything is included and arranged for you — rooms, all your meals, excursions, etc.
Hospitality costs have increased tremendously in the post-pandemic era, which is why the signature all-inclusive tours, such as the California Mille, the Colorado Grand and the Cooperstate 1000, have entry fees that can reach $15,000.
As an alternative, some tours have gone to an a la carte pricing structure. You pay a modest entry fee (sometimes less than $1,000) and then book and pay for your own rooms and are also responsible for most or all of your own meals.
I’d like to know your thoughts on these two formats.
A benefit of all-inclusive is that you are together with all the other participants in a banquet room each night. (The downside to that is often the food is not great, but the organizers are still paying $100 a plate to feed you.) Would you rather be picking up the tab with a few friends at a local restaurant?
Sometimes tours include lavish breakfasts with omelet stations and the like, however many times this leads to wasted food, as people are out the door and into their cars after a cup of coffee and a doughnut. How would you feel about just a continental breakfast like most midrange hotels offer each morning?
I know from experience how expensive it is to set up a fancy catered lunch in a remote area. Contrast that with the local Porsche Club giving you a list of restaurants in the town you are passing through around noon.
And while you are thinking about all of this, let me know your thoughts on “day-off” activities.
This year the Porsche club extended its NW Passage tour by a day and had a boat cruise in Montana (for an extra charge, as this was an a la carte tour). I skipped it, went sightseeing and found some delightful small museums. The tour organizers tell me that the reaction to the day off was very positive and they are going to repeat it next year.
Most tours are six days and five nights, typically arriving on a Sunday and leaving on a Friday. Adding an extra day makes it seven days and six nights. Is that too long? How do you feel about a day set aside for other activities like golf, whitewater rafting or fly-fishing? Of course, more driving could also be one of the options to choose from.
Please let me know your thoughts on all of these issues (and I promise this is the end of my tour-focused blog posts).
12 responses to “Keith’s Blog: All-Inclusive or A La Carte?”
Haig Haleblian
I’ve never participated in a week long rally though I do find it intriguing. With all that I have going on in life, carving out a week can be challenging. I can financially afford it, but have some reservations. Distance to the venue as well as paying the freight just to get there and back. I’m not a big eater and I don’t do cocktails so paying for all that doesn’t make a lot of sense. I deal with the public 12-14 hours daily, so on my time off even though I can be charming and delightful, I prefer to be an introvert. For instance I’m seriously considering a drive alone next year in the 06 FGT along Highway 20 from Chicago to Bend Or. If I were to do a tour I’d go the Porsche route with a small group, ala carte, for 3-4 days. I think the Colorado Grand or others of like type would be interesting as long as there weren’t a bunch of jerks, but one doesn’t get to pick which is understandable. I get enough of that daily. I’ve never enjoed any aspect of a mass feed, but find me a great local taqueria with a couple buddies and I’m all in.
Looking forward to possibly seeing you this week. We’ll be arriving Thursday with a curated caravan of a dozen cars from The Motoring Club. If you’re attending Werks on Friday, I’ll be among the judges — let’s be sure to connect amid the festivities. All the best, BB
A “curated” caravan of cars. Really? How pretentious!
Frank Barrett
Forgot to tell you that my late great friend Bob Sutherland, who founded The Colorado Grand in 1989, chose only point-to-point routes because they forced people to get into their cars and drive, regardless of weather, etc. Otherwise, on a loop route, some would stay and laze the daze away at a spa or pointless shopping. These days, though, the Grand does throw in an occasional loop day, sort of a compromise.
David
Check out the recent “all inclusive “ Oregon Scenic Tour. Small group of only 12 cars makes for delightful driving, easy dining and socializing. Been in dozens of 25-50 car tours but Itgis small group was without a doubt the best tour we’ve been on in years.
Frank Barrett
All-inclusive tours work best for out-of-state entrants, who are unfamiliar with the area and prefer to be in a group in case they need assistance. Living in Colorado, I’ve switched to ala carte tours, with just a few local friends, as they are much less expensive and offer more freedom to come and go as you please.
Rory
Mr Haleblian said it best! ‘74 cutoff, point to point, ala Carte, day off mid-tour would be my preference.
Rick Mahrle
As a long time organizer of and participant in the Copperstate 1000, there are a lot of considerations that need to be kept in mind if switching to ala carte. On your own dinners can be problematic unless everyone can park in the same area and walk to dinner. Not all of the participating cars have lights, or want to be taken out at night in an unknown area. It also leads to “exclusive” groups that go everywhere together, leaving out newcomers, and reduces cohension that comes from shared experience. We have done lunches at various locations, but once again with close in parking, plenty of options, and walking distance. Sometimes, where you want to have lunch is in the middle of nowhere, so you have to cater the event, but lunch can be pared down. Some people are always going to skip breakfast, leave early, get to lunch before it is ready, etc. But, they know they won’t get the same attention.
anatoly arutunoff
what delightful problems. my mind goes back to the ‘hillbilly mille’ karen and i put on in arkansas. nice hotels, wonderful roads, one magnificent restaurant, and a couple actual timed hillclimbs–‘special stages’–up mt.nebo and eureka springs…old scca hillclimbs…the idea was to do ’em at the speed limit–25mph. 2000. was it really that long ago…
I’ve been busy Keith – too many old cars – and didn’t get back to you with any comments on your previous column. But I did have a suggestion for the age of cars to be allowed. How about a simple 50 years old or older? That would let things grow by a year each year.
Regarding all-inclusive vs. al a carte, I’d go with al a carte. When I go to a professional conference, I may very well sit at the side and take in the luncheon speaker, but I likely won’t be paying $75 for the chicken and peas luncheon meal. More likely I’ll dash out after the speaker and spend $6 or $8 at McDonalds or go to a nice restaurant and enjoy a quick lunch with an old friend.
Maybe an al a carte tour could include a pre-launch breakfast and a post-tour banquet and even a few evening no-host cocktail gatherings. And a listing of suggested eateries and lodging places along the way. But “all-inclusive” sounds a bit suffocating. No thanks.
Todd
I’d prefer a la carte – that way it is more affordable and you can enjoy the less-rigid structure a little more.
As a compromise , maybe have a big banquet one night on the tour – so everyone can get together and have a shared memory to take back home with them.
I think 6/5 is sufficient – it’s already hard to get that much time in an otherwise busy life!
12 responses to “Keith’s Blog: All-Inclusive or A La Carte?”
I’ve never participated in a week long rally though I do find it intriguing. With all that I have going on in life, carving out a week can be challenging. I can financially afford it, but have some reservations. Distance to the venue as well as paying the freight just to get there and back. I’m not a big eater and I don’t do cocktails so paying for all that doesn’t make a lot of sense. I deal with the public 12-14 hours daily, so on my time off even though I can be charming and delightful, I prefer to be an introvert. For instance I’m seriously considering a drive alone next year in the 06 FGT along Highway 20 from Chicago to Bend Or. If I were to do a tour I’d go the Porsche route with a small group, ala carte, for 3-4 days. I think the Colorado Grand or others of like type would be interesting as long as there weren’t a bunch of jerks, but one doesn’t get to pick which is understandable. I get enough of that daily. I’ve never enjoed any aspect of a mass feed, but find me a great local taqueria with a couple buddies and I’m all in.
Looking forward to possibly seeing you this week.
We’ll be arriving Thursday with a curated caravan of a dozen cars from The Motoring Club. If you’re attending Werks on Friday, I’ll be among the judges — let’s be sure to connect amid the festivities.
All the best, BB
A “curated” caravan of cars. Really? How pretentious!
Forgot to tell you that my late great friend Bob Sutherland, who founded The Colorado Grand in 1989, chose only point-to-point routes because they forced people to get into their cars and drive, regardless of weather, etc. Otherwise, on a loop route, some would stay and laze the daze away at a spa or pointless shopping. These days, though, the Grand does throw in an occasional loop day, sort of a compromise.
Check out the recent “all inclusive “ Oregon Scenic Tour. Small group of only 12 cars makes for delightful driving, easy dining and socializing. Been in dozens of 25-50 car tours but Itgis small group was without a doubt the best tour we’ve been on in years.
All-inclusive tours work best for out-of-state entrants, who are unfamiliar with the area and prefer to be in a group in case they need assistance. Living in Colorado, I’ve switched to ala carte tours, with just a few local friends, as they are much less expensive and offer more freedom to come and go as you please.
Mr Haleblian said it best! ‘74 cutoff, point to point, ala Carte, day off mid-tour would be my preference.
As a long time organizer of and participant in the Copperstate 1000, there are a lot of considerations that need to be kept in mind if switching to ala carte. On your own dinners can be problematic unless everyone can park in the same area and walk to dinner. Not all of the participating cars have lights, or want to be taken out at night in an unknown area. It also leads to “exclusive” groups that go everywhere together, leaving out newcomers, and reduces cohension that comes from shared experience. We have done lunches at various locations, but once again with close in parking, plenty of options, and walking distance. Sometimes, where you want to have lunch is in the middle of nowhere, so you have to cater the event, but lunch can be pared down. Some people are always going to skip breakfast, leave early, get to lunch before it is ready, etc. But, they know they won’t get the same attention.
what delightful problems. my mind goes back to the ‘hillbilly mille’ karen and i put on in arkansas. nice hotels, wonderful roads, one magnificent restaurant, and a couple actual timed hillclimbs–‘special stages’–up mt.nebo and eureka springs…old scca hillclimbs…the idea was to do ’em at the speed limit–25mph. 2000. was it really that long ago…
“Hillbilly Mille” is pure genius. That is all!
I’ve been busy Keith – too many old cars – and didn’t get back to you with any comments on your previous column. But I did have a suggestion for the age of cars to be allowed. How about a simple 50 years old or older? That would let things grow by a year each year.
Regarding all-inclusive vs. al a carte, I’d go with al a carte. When I go to a professional conference, I may very well sit at the side and take in the luncheon speaker, but I likely won’t be paying $75 for the chicken and peas luncheon meal. More likely I’ll dash out after the speaker and spend $6 or $8 at McDonalds or go to a nice restaurant and enjoy a quick lunch with an old friend.
Maybe an al a carte tour could include a pre-launch breakfast and a post-tour banquet and even a few evening no-host cocktail gatherings. And a listing of suggested eateries and lodging places along the way. But “all-inclusive” sounds a bit suffocating. No thanks.
I’d prefer a la carte – that way it is more affordable and you can enjoy the less-rigid structure a little more.
As a compromise , maybe have a big banquet one night on the tour – so everyone can get together and have a shared memory to take back home with them.
I think 6/5 is sufficient – it’s already hard to get that much time in an otherwise busy life!