A few years ago, I owned and restored a 750-series Alfa Romeo Sprint Veloce “Confortavole” (identical to a lightweight but with steel instead of aluminum doors, hood and trunk).
I had been looking for an “eyebrow” Sprint Veloce for several years This car had a numbers-matching engine and a correct “tunnel-case” gearbox.
Guru Denny Pillar rebuilt the engine, and the gearbox was spent to a specialist back east.
It was time-consuming and expensive to rebuild these parts, and I have often wondered if I should have gone a different path.
For much less money, I could have dropped a rebuilt 1600- or 1750-cc engine and a split-case 5-speed into the car.
In the end, I might have had a car that cruised more easily at 70 mph and was more pleasant to drive. And cheaper to acquire as well.
A true 750 Sprint Veloce is a $120,000 car. A Sprint Normale upgraded with a bigger engine would be lucky to bring $60,000. Would you rather have correctness or an extra $60,000 in your pocket?
What are your thoughts on this? Is it worth the extra expense to keep a car stock, or does it make more sense to upgrade to later components to improve driveability?
I look forward to reading your comments below.
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As the saying goes, “It’s only original once”, and despite any potential upgrades, mechanical or driveablity-wise, in my messed up mind, a “numbers matching” all original car, is always better than a upgraded car. Again, in my messed up mind, the only acceptable upgrades would be upgraded brakes for safety and electronic ignition to avoid getting stranded on a regular basis. In other words, what you did with your 750 Sprint Veloce is the way I would have gone.
The other big question, is original classic muscle car or modern retro muscle car? Would I prefer to have a 1971 Dodge Challenger for a 2021 Dodge Challenger? Having driven both, I most definitely would prefer the 2021 model with all its modern safety, comfort, performance, and believe it or not, fuel economy. Would I want a 2026 Corvette Stingray or a 1963 Split-Window Coupe Sting Ray? For that one, give me the ’63 in a heartbeat!
Glenn in Brooklyn, NY
Glenn
If you have the original motor and transmission then I think you need to keep it original. But if they are gone, I think it’s fine to use later running gear, especially since they swap out so easily with nearly no modifications to the body. There’s nothing stopping a future owner from tracking down original parts and making it correct again.
I just sold a 750 Giulietta spider veloce racer that had a later 1600 in it when I bought it. When the motor gave out after a few seasons I replaced it with a 1300 so that I was legal to race in its original group. But admittedly I sourced a later 101 series 1300 engine because they are less expensive, more readily available, and are a stronger design.
Before baling out of America in descent, I restored two type 102-2000 Roadsters, and a Montreal. All earned “best” at Concorso, and sold between $110,000 and $140,000. One of the 102s has recently resold for $175,000.
All were, to some degree, “resto mods”. My policy was to make no irreversible changes, so no cutting. None had “matching numbers” engines, one had a later derivative of the original type engine modified for gobs of power. Other mods included Webers, cams, Konis and so on. Leather, not vinyl. Wire wheels, not stamped steel. The Montreal received Alfaholics suspension, better brakes, GTA style wheels.
To the extent possible, all were sold with a fitted crate full of the original type parts.
The Montreal interior was “styled.
The prices were at the upper end of the curve. I continue to hear from the line of new owners who glow about the handling, performance, and good looks.
I always built my Alfas to drive. I always made some money on the sale.
I pity an Alfa that just sits for fear of blowing its “original” engine.
I say keep the car as original as possible. Not all cars are meant to be restro-mods, Alfa’s are one of the cars that need to be keep “numbers matching”. At least for my 64 spider!
It depends. If the car is relatively common, I’d feel fine about upgrading it such that it could easily be put back to original configuration. My 1965 Porsche, not a rare car, gained better headlights, better seats, wider wheels, a better ignition system, and better brakes. All the original bits are stored, ready to be refitted.
If, on the other hand, the car is rare, be more cautious. Mercedes-Benz Classic has a policy of making reversible upgrades to rare models that improve reliability and safety yet are invisible, for instance, internal engine parts, brakes, etc. Perhaps Mike Kunz or Nate Lander can elaborate; that would make an interesting article for SCM.
Most of the folks in the Porsche 356 world who have dropped a late 356 or 912 engine into an earlier 356 have kept the original engine or gearbox , leaving the choice of “correctness” up to a prospective new owner. Clearly driving the 356 with a reliable 100+ hp is a more enjoyable experience than a 60 hp or less original. It’s easily reversed for the true concours fans, but you can have the best of both worlds. I don’t know how easily reversible the Alfa swap is, but absent those challenges it seems like a no brainer.
upgrade any mechanical components you want – don’t mess with the body or interior!!
Keith. Whoa , young man !….
“Upgrading” a desired Alfa Spider is sacrilege to we “ Purists “ ! Once you Start Then where do you end !?….there typically is “ No Upside” to doing this , more importantly you are limiting your Buyer clientele . BECAUSE most Alfa Collectors prefer originality, due that many Concours and Tour events require Authenticity . As a long time Collector , I preface my remarks that upgrading to a higher SAFETY standard would be acceptable . I converted my ‘56 Porsche 356A to Dual Master Cylinders as an example , always 1 MC in 356’s which is dangerous rally driving ! So , upgrade ONLY for safety,
Never for appearance to keep the potential
“ UpSide” for your car when you go to sell it ,
And you WILL !!
At 53 years old, I find myself in an interesting place of confluence between the older, perhaps more stodgy restoration crowd and the younger set of enthusiasts who willingly depart the text to better serve their uptempo driving expectations and modern road environments.
While these two subsets aren’t all inclusive, the tension carried between them is dynamic and seems to be changing over the last few years.
You bring up a great point Keith…and your choice of an Alfa Romeo example is so perfectly suited to open the dialogue about “Rules of Engagement” while building a collector car (particularly European Sports Cars perhaps?)
Because an Alfa Romeo Stepnose GTV isn’t a VW Bug…and a 1955 VW Bug isn’t the same as a 1979 Super Beetle.
My tendencies towards the Orphan cars of the world may very well be predicated upon the notion that less people will care if I “Ruin” them.
My DKW will be getting thoughtfully ruined fairly soon. My Goliath 1100 Express Estate too. I have owned, altered and/or messed with Renault, SIMCA, Fiat, Alfa, Panhard, Borgward, NSU, Hillman and dozens of Volkswagens.
Very few people got pissed about me lowering my 1958 SIMCA Aronde tastefully. And I even took home trophy’s from 6 different car shows.
But it wasn’t a very valuable car…right?
Is that where the line is?
If we can afford to,
Shouldn’t we simply Build what we like?
Seems so simple.
But circling around the easiest answer are all of these adjacent talking points that get easily overlooked by either side of this polarity.
And Now, as a restoration/preservation and fabrication shop owner myself, I go over these shifting ideas with each customer, I discuss them with enthusiasts, builders and collectors both younger and older every year at Monterey Car Week, at local car shows, at Concourses and gatherings across the country.
What are your expectations for your car?
Are you selling it now, or selling later?
What will the car market look like in 5-20 years?
Who’s buying these cars then?
Who’s driving them?
What does the aftermarket parts supply look like-or the restoration, preservation and fabrication marketplace for that matter?
Who’s working on these cars in 10 years?
I mean doing really good work, a quality of work that you can feel proud driving but doesn’t get you drug into multiple years and triple digits of investment?
And where does the “Line” get crossed on which cars are truly worth just leaving alone? Where’s the proper spot to carefully and thoughtfully spend your time and money preserving the machine as original and untouched?
When do you get the green light and start tearing everything apart, cataloging, documenting and restoring it to beyond original quality?
When are you free to piss people off and stick a Busso V6 in your GTV or to let sparks fly and section, chop, lower, adjust, reimagine and dream your own version of a special car?
Even if it’s a very special car?
What about a really rare one?
Who are you answering to?
Who’s judging you?
Should you care about their opinion or the greater Market regarding potential resale?
Maybe so.
Or maybe not.
I’ve enjoyed seeing the way that you have adopted and cared for each car in your collection in my years knowing you Keith. You have adapted and altered little parts of your cars to serve your tastes, needs and expectations while keeping a keen eye on the market.
And they generally have served you very well.
I have loved following your personal machines on splendid driving routes, passing you on the long straights and listening to the “not stock” sound of other collector cars roaring around the PNW driven by smiling faces…and I’ve loved seeing your son take up the mantle in his own way and begin leaving his own fingerprints on the local car scene.
In his own way, answering these questions possibly different than you or I would.
I like my cars to be lowered just a bit.
I like to drive a slow car fast and hear it hum at 70 mph.
I liked your Junior Zagato…I’ve always appreciated little cars like that.
I would love to have my old 1958 SIMCA back.
I’d put an Alfa Romeo twincam 2 liter and 5 speed in it and smile everywhere I went.
I’d thrill simply mashing the throttle, listening to the incredibly inefficient side draft Webers and Borla muffler.
But that’s just me.
I agree with James. As long as it’s reversible, do the update and save the original parts for the next owner.
I think deciding whether or not to upgrade (“resto-mod”) a vintage automobiles like the Alfa should be based largely on how the automobile is to be used and enjoyed. Keeping it stock for car shows, concours etc or driving and enjoying it on a regular basis? Many vintage cars are wildly outclassed by the behemoths driven by Americans and motoring among them in an underpowered, under braked vehicle can be a scary adventure. Where one lives is also a consideration ( large cities vs rural roads, less traffic etc). Original as built is best but it depends on the vehicle and it’s intended use..
To me, mods that enhance reliability and safety while maintaining a vintage vibe are completely kosher and almost mandatory if you’re going to drive the car at all. As long as the mods are reversible and you keep the original take-off parts, it’s all good. End of the day, it’s your car, do what you want to maximize your enjoyment of it.
How much of that “extra” $60,000 does it cost to rebuild the “original” engine and transmission??
Hi Keith… you might have expected me to comment… my 76 Alfetta GT is likely one of the most resto-modded in the world. Nothing was spared, from shaving the side markers to cutting the interior door panels to install power windows, to a total redesign and custom fabrication of the center console and door cards. After owning two Alfettas previously, I knew what I liked and didn’t like about this car.
I feel I kept true to the original lines and intent of the car, and did stuff to it that one might have seen if Alfa had built the Alfetta today. It’s also a fast, smooth, quiet GT… perhaps even better than the original in those respects.
Of course, one could say “it’s just an Alfetta” and you also know that finding parts for this (sadly) unrespected late-70’s Alfa isn’t easy. And the car will never (in my lifetime) increase to make these cars investments.
People love this car, and I’ve yet to receive one disparaging comment about me or it. And the big bottom line is this; it’s my car! I did it to learn and grow as a person and as a mechanic, and I’m super happy with the results. I’d not do this to most Alfas ; but I also won’t disparage anyone for choosing to do this to their sports cars. However you choose to enjoy it, make it yours!!